Lack of Interest

[The Lasombra]

funnily enough, I was told only last week by at least 2 German ccg dealers that "no-one plays VTES in Germany".

I believe that would be caused by the biggest V:TES retailer in Europe bypassing all of the standard distribution methods.

See also:
http://vtes.de/catalog/
and
http://forum.vekn.de/index.php

Going direct helps the current players pocketbooks, but hurts their chances of finding new players because the product isn't in game stores where the new players could be finding it.

[Jazzbeaux]

Going direct helps the current players pocketbooks, but hurts their chances of finding new players because the product isn't in game stores where the new players could be finding it.

Its funny, the internet bought this game back by giving us all somewhere we could organise and find players. Now internet shopping is killing the game because it is just not visible any more.
I don't know where I would be able to get Vtes cards locally, might have to be an order through a Bristol store... I remember when you used to get Vtes cards off the shelf in Virgin Megastores (WotC days).

Sam

[mikelosaurus]

Going direct helps the current players pocketbooks, but hurts their chances of finding new players because the product isn't in game stores where the new players could be finding it.

I think this comes back to the issue about affordability of the CCG model that I mentioned earlier. The majority of the existing fanbase now buy online to cut costs but I agree this does have a detrimental impact on the retail presence of the game. I think this is a point in favour of making the game non-collectible, as since the outlay per set would potentially be less, people wouldn't begrudge paying the RRP as much as they do at the moment.

[squidalot]

I think this comes back to the issue about affordability of the CCG model that I mentioned earlier. The majority of the existing fanbase now buy online to cut costs but I agree this does have a detrimental impact on the retail presence of the game. I think this is a point in favour of making the game non-collectible, as since the outlay per set would potentially be less, people wouldn't begrudge paying the RRP as much as they do at the moment.

I'm not sure how true that would be - one issue with the fixed format is the fact that there's no card limit in vampire so you'd potentially need to buy several fixed sets anyway.

So the Warhammer Invasion fixed set is £30 or so. I don't know how many different cards are in this or total number cards.
Currently I buy 3-5 boxes a year of VTES cards for personal use (costing say £250-300 or 100 beers in new money) plus maybe draft an additional box.
So it depends on numbers really.... if that's cheaper (also realisitcally you need maybe 3/4 of a box of the 60 card sets and with the base sets a box of starters and a box of boosters and that's be over 15 months or so)

[House Atreides]

Hi,

actually, this is why House Atreides doesnt sell boxes/packs online.

I fully understand that without shops selling product then there would be no Singles market, because the game would slowly die.

Because of this we don't sell sealed product online.

Cheers,
karen
House Atreides - www.hacards.com

[Jazzbeaux]

Because of this we don't sell sealed product online.

Very admirable, but when Vtes relaunched with White Wolf it was difficult to find in shops. Which lead me (and others?) to the internet, and from there is is very difficult to go back to full price.
Perhaps if there had been a big push back then to get it into shops it might have stayed there, but now its a definite uphill struggle. An incentive scheme to buy from FLGS might have helped, but they are thin on the ground in the UK at least.

Sam

[GreenO]

I've got a dangerously boring amount to say about small UK retail businesses and why we should support them as long as they agree to meet the demands of 21st century consumers rather than persuing a 18th century business model. Get me drunk and i'll expound at length.

Short version: FanBoy 3 is a fantastic FLGS and should be supported at all costs by the locals and any visitors. Why? Because it opens 12-8/9pm and has a games room. I literally cannot overstate these two points enough and I made a point of buying the odd VTES booster when I was working in Manchester regularly a few years ago.

Supporting a games shop that is only open when I'm at work does very little for me or the shop. If you are a retail business that relies on people buying things from you to make money, be open when your market is available to shop and keep them in your store. You will make more money. It's really not hard folks.

The internet is open 24/7. And I can shop there at work. Stiff competition with bricks and mortar huh? So what have the FLGS done to counteract this? Mostly the have whined, moaned and bleated about how times have changed and how the internet has ruined their business. What they haven't done, by and large, is change how and when they do business.

House Atreides turned up at the V:TES Nationals the other year, not the FLGS in Reading. They get my money. They also dragged their VTES stock to Essen, so I bought some. The guys who run GamesLore frequently drove to the games club I used to go to in the West Midlands to gauge which games are good and bring along orders and new releases. They get my money too.

I'm all for supporting FLGS, but i'm not going to subsidise them.

Matt
-a nod to Troll de Jeaux too, a good FLGS in Paris based on a couple of visits.

[Jazzbeaux]

All of Matts previous post.

What he said. I have a similar attitude to shops, in that the FLGS can't compete on price so must find some other advantage.
Being an actual friendly place to go, meet people, and play games is one. Knowing what you are selling is another, so you can recommend things is another. Or going that extra mile to find customers - such as HA being at the National Cup for the past few years.

Anyway back on to the topic of Vtes interest...

Sam

[mikelosaurus]

To add fuel to this fire see:

http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_i ... tory=25704

Can you fill me in on the status of White Wolf, the physical game company CCP acquired in Atlanta?

It's just an imprint... White Wolf used to have a fairly large staff. It doesn't anymore. It's focusing primarily on the World of Darkness RPG products. It's not doing some of the things it used to do; board games and other card games and things. The focus of the company [CCP] is on making MMOs and our legacy table top business is a legacy business.

[Qualta]

Firstly, I don't see Vtes as disappearing entirely anytime soon so long as the RPG fanbase remains strong, but that perhaps it needs to modernise to incorporate nWoD. I imagine there's people out their wanting to play a World of Darkness card game who don't necessarily want it to be based on a RPG that died 5 years ago; a game that also brings alot of complication to the table.

What about creating a card game based upon the entirety of the World of Darkness, which could include the various groups currently unrepresented? Portray the nWod version of Vamps, Werewolves, Changelings, etc... which would allow you the simplicity of only having to worry about 5 Vampire clans for example, but still have the diversity of different groups to keep it interesting. Then advertise the game as an offshoot of the RPGs so that no matter what game you play (Promethean, Hunter, etc...) you would still have representation, in a manner of speaking. That might interest more players who might currently see the game as dead since the storyline that is so embedded in it can no longer progress.

[squidalot]

To add fuel to this fire see:

http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_i ... tory=25704

Can you fill me in on the status of White Wolf, the physical game company CCP acquired in Atlanta?

It's just an imprint... White Wolf used to have a fairly large staff. It doesn't anymore. It's focusing primarily on the World of Darkness RPG products. It's not doing some of the things it used to do; board games and other card games and things. The focus of the company [CCP] is on making MMOs and our legacy table top business is a legacy business.

ooooooooh that's pretty harsh as they're still pumping stuff out (although at the end of the day they did buy it to make wod mmporg)

[squidalot]

Firstly, I don't see Vtes as disappearing entirely anytime soon so long as the RPG fanbase remains strong, but that perhaps it needs to modernise to incorporate nWoD. I imagine there's people out their wanting to play a World of Darkness card game who don't necessarily want it to be based on a RPG that died 5 years ago; a game that also brings alot of complication to the table.

What about creating a card game based upon the entirety of the World of Darkness, which could include the various groups currently unrepresented? Portray the nWod version of Vamps, Werewolves, Changelings, etc... which would allow you the simplicity of only having to worry about 5 Vampire clans for example, but still have the diversity of different groups to keep it interesting. Then advertise the game as an offshoot of the RPGs so that no matter what game you play (Promethean, Hunter, etc...) you would still have representation, in a manner of speaking. That might interest more players who might currently see the game as dead since the storyline that is so embedded in it can no longer progress.

Well the only rational way to do that would be to make a new game and they don't have the inclination or the appetitte for that and i'm not sure the market does either (mine you that's probably something that could work better as a LCG rather than a CCG).

[jaz000]

Hi all

Interresting discussion

For me there is one clear reason for vtes having a low profile. I live near Ipswich and the last time I saw cards for sale in a shop in Ipswich was 1995!

The next reason is when I try and get people into it they say it's too complicated, ref: CCGS being aimed at kids - also ref: I live near Ipswich

Still having a mid life crisis, and my new job takes me into London once a month (on a monday) so maybe I'll get to play the game again before I grow old or it vanishes into obscurity!

Jason

[mikelosaurus]

Still having a mid life crisis, and my new job takes me into London once a month (on a monday) so maybe I'll get to play the game again before I grow old or it vanishes into obscurity!

You'd certainly be more than welcome to join us. Most of us have spare decks with us too which you'd be welcome to borrow if you have any trouble bringing one of your own...